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 VOICELESS PEOPLE

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jetfan27
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PostSubject: VOICELESS PEOPLE   Sun 06 Mar 2011, 11:39 am

If it wasn't for my union I wouldn't be where I am today. People who can't stand up for themselves or "won't" need to have someone who will. There is power in numbers...

Gov. Scott Walker has lost the war

by Rick Ungar
Forbes blog
3/4/11

In what may be the result of one of the great political miscalculations of our time, Scott Walker’s popularity in his home state is fast going down the tubes.


A Rasmussen poll out today reveals that almost 60% of likely Wisconsin voters now disapprove of their aggressive governor’s performance, with 48% strongly disapproving.
While these numbers are clearly indicators of a strategy gone horribly wrong, there are some additional findings in the poll that I suspect deserve even greater attention.

It turns out that the state’s public school teachers are very popular with their fellow Badgers. With 77% of those polled holding a high opinion of their educators, it is not particularly surprising that only 32% among households with children in the public school system approve of the governor’s performance. Sixty-seven percent (67%) disapprove, including 54% who strongly disapprove.

Can anyone imagine a politician succeeding with numbers like this among people who have kids?

These numbers should be of great concern not only to Governor Walker but to governors everywhere who were planning to follow down the path of war with state employee unions. You can’t take on the state worker unions without taking on the teachers – and the teachers are more popular than Gov. Walker and his cohorts appear to realize.

The data should also weigh heavily on the minds of each and every Republican gearing up to run for president in 2012 as the actions of Governor Walker, Kasich and anyone else planning to enter this fight are bringing Christmas to the Obama re-election campaign as they return rank and file union members to where they once lived - the Democratic Party.
The defection of union members to the Republican Party has been an important part of the electoral math for successful GOP candidates for many years now and a real thorn in the side for the Democrats.

Consider the re-election campaign of President George W. Bush where success came down to winning the vote in Northeastern Ohio.

I’m from Northeastern Ohio. I can tell you without hesitation that union flows through the blood of these people who spent so much of their lives in the steel mills (before they closed up) and are reminded each and every day of how well their union looked out for them. While a number of these people are retired and living on their pensions provided by their collective bargaining agreement, their kids – many of whom do not hold union jobs- remain very appreciative of what the unions did for mom and dad.

While this appreciation may not have prevented these people from siding politically with the social philosophy of George W. Bush – as they did- had Bush taken on the unions in his re-election bid, the outcome would likely have been very different.

These strong, emotional attachments to the unions persist in many of the rust belt states where so many key presidential battlegrounds can be found.

While Governor Walker may yet succeed in getting his budget repair bill through the legislative process and accomplish his goal of reducing collective bargaining to a shell of its former self, the larger battle appears to already be lost. And while Walker – still in the earliest stages of his term-may be able to recover over the next three and a half years, from a national perspective, I don’t know that Walker’s future makes any difference at all.
The damage has already been done.

Should Gov. Walker accomplish his goal, he will have stoked a level of union anger that I very much suspect will become a key driver in an Obama victory in 2012. He will also have prompted the nation’s unions to work together for a common objective– a feat that would have seemed impossible just one month ago.

If Walker loses his fight, he will have reminded the unions of the importance of fighting back against their enemies, reminding them of how life was for their forbearers who fought to establish the modern union movement. This will ignite the passion for battle while reminding those union folks who have been voting republican of the importance of sticking with the party that sticks with them.

Walker would have done well to take ‘yes’ for an answer when the unions agreed to his financial proposals. Given the procedural advantages in Ohio, where the GOP legislators could push through the anti-collective bargaining bill without the need for Democratic legislators, Walker should have backed down and allowed John Kasich to take the lead in the effort.

The Wisconsin governor’s desire to be at the forefront of his perceived GOP revolution may not only have doomed the anti-union effort, but it may forever label him as the man who gave the democrats the gift that keeps on giving – the return of the union rank and file into the arms of the Democratic Party.
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PostSubject: Re: VOICELESS PEOPLE   Sun 06 Mar 2011, 12:23 pm

jetfan27 wrote:
If it wasn't for my union I wouldn't be where I am today. People who can't stand up for themselves or "won't" need to have someone who will. There is power in numbers...

Gov. Scott Walker has lost the war

by Rick Ungar
Forbes blog
3/4/11

In what may be the result of one of the great political miscalculations of our time, Scott Walker’s popularity in his home state is fast going down the tubes.


A Rasmussen poll out today reveals that almost 60% of likely Wisconsin voters now disapprove of their aggressive governor’s performance, with 48% strongly disapproving.
While these numbers are clearly indicators of a strategy gone horribly wrong, there are some additional findings in the poll that I suspect deserve even greater attention.

It turns out that the state’s public school teachers are very popular with their fellow Badgers. With 77% of those polled holding a high opinion of their educators, it is not particularly surprising that only 32% among households with children in the public school system approve of the governor’s performance. Sixty-seven percent (67%) disapprove, including 54% who strongly disapprove.

Can anyone imagine a politician succeeding with numbers like this among people who have kids?

These numbers should be of great concern not only to Governor Walker but to governors everywhere who were planning to follow down the path of war with state employee unions. You can’t take on the state worker unions without taking on the teachers – and the teachers are more popular than Gov. Walker and his cohorts appear to realize.

The data should also weigh heavily on the minds of each and every Republican gearing up to run for president in 2012 as the actions of Governor Walker, Kasich and anyone else planning to enter this fight are bringing Christmas to the Obama re-election campaign as they return rank and file union members to where they once lived - the Democratic Party.
The defection of union members to the Republican Party has been an important part of the electoral math for successful GOP candidates for many years now and a real thorn in the side for the Democrats.

Consider the re-election campaign of President George W. Bush where success came down to winning the vote in Northeastern Ohio.

I’m from Northeastern Ohio. I can tell you without hesitation that union flows through the blood of these people who spent so much of their lives in the steel mills (before they closed up) and are reminded each and every day of how well their union looked out for them. While a number of these people are retired and living on their pensions provided by their collective bargaining agreement, their kids – many of whom do not hold union jobs- remain very appreciative of what the unions did for mom and dad.

While this appreciation may not have prevented these people from siding politically with the social philosophy of George W. Bush – as they did- had Bush taken on the unions in his re-election bid, the outcome would likely have been very different.

These strong, emotional attachments to the unions persist in many of the rust belt states where so many key presidential battlegrounds can be found.

While Governor Walker may yet succeed in getting his budget repair bill through the legislative process and accomplish his goal of reducing collective bargaining to a shell of its former self, the larger battle appears to already be lost. And while Walker – still in the earliest stages of his term-may be able to recover over the next three and a half years, from a national perspective, I don’t know that Walker’s future makes any difference at all.
The damage has already been done.

Should Gov. Walker accomplish his goal, he will have stoked a level of union anger that I very much suspect will become a key driver in an Obama victory in 2012. He will also have prompted the nation’s unions to work together for a common objective– a feat that would have seemed impossible just one month ago.

If Walker loses his fight, he will have reminded the unions of the importance of fighting back against their enemies, reminding them of how life was for their forbearers who fought to establish the modern union movement. This will ignite the passion for battle while reminding those union folks who have been voting republican of the importance of sticking with the party that sticks with them.

Walker would have done well to take ‘yes’ for an answer when the unions agreed to his financial proposals. Given the procedural advantages in Ohio, where the GOP legislators could push through the anti-collective bargaining bill without the need for Democratic legislators, Walker should have backed down and allowed John Kasich to take the lead in the effort.

The Wisconsin governor’s desire to be at the forefront of his perceived GOP revolution may not only have doomed the anti-union effort, but it may forever label him as the man who gave the democrats the gift that keeps on giving – the return of the union rank and file into the arms of the Democratic Party.

This should not be about Walker's popularity or the return of the union rank and file into the arms of the Democratic Party.....it is and SHOULD BE for the people of Wisconsin about the disastrous future of the State of Wisconsin!

Collective bargaining isn't helping Wisconsin's state debt.......

Union activists are claiming that elimination of collective bargaining would be a disaster for Wisconsin, but the numbers tell us a different story. Chris Edwards at the Cato Institute compares Wisconsin to Virginia, where collective bargaining by public employees was banned by Democratic Gov. Doug Wilder in the 1990s, and finds an interesting contrast.

Wisconsin

* Collective bargaining (monopoly unionism) in place for government workers, with about 52 percent of state/local workers in unions (Source: Table 1 here)
* State debt as a share of income: 4.6% (Source: Moody’s)
* State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 32% (Source: Andrew Biggs)
* Score on quality of state government management: B- (Source: Pew Center)
* Score on Pew’s subcategory for “people” management: B-

Virginia

* Collective bargaining in state and local government banned by a 1993 statute signed into law by Democratic Governor Douglas Wilder
* State debt as a share of income: 2.1%
* State unfunded pension obligations as a share of GDP: 17%
* Score on quality of state government management: A-
* Score on Pew’s subcategory for “people” management: A


If eliminating collective bargaining is such a disastrous measure, it's worth asking why Virginia has seemed to do so well -- better, in fact, than Wisconsin.



Hope and change voters....do not forget to after you enjoy a  with obama Kool-Aid....sweetened with NutraHope!

Many people (that I know) are alive only because it’s illegal to shoot them.

Ronald Reagen said it best.......The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.

"You can ignore reality, but not the consequences of ignoring reality." Ayn Rand

The truly educated never graduate !

When the Going Gets Tough, the Tough Get Going. The Smart Left a Long Time Ago.

I have always said I don't care what you do or with whom you do it, but don't demand that I think that it is normal or that it is OK!!!!

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity!
how rude

Defining....Abracadabra … cursing censored
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jetfan27
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PostSubject: Re: VOICELESS PEOPLE   Sun 06 Mar 2011, 6:57 pm

If eliminating collective bargaining is such a disastrous measure, it's worth asking why Virginia has seemed to do so well -- better, in fact, than Wisconsin.



You can't use Virginia as an example because it's a "right to fire" oops right to work state. There areen't many unions there.
On the contrary; of course it's a popularity contest. Walker would not have tried to pull off his anti-union shakedown if he didn't think the election results gave him sufficient political capital to make his move. Based on the assumption that he could maintain that wave of popular support, his focus wasn't on saving the state money, but union busting.



It wasn't about saving money when Walker made tax cuts his first legislative goal. Claiming the state is "broke", and then decreasing the state's revenue stream through tax cuts that only benefit a select few, while cutting the necessary services the public depends on, is not a serious fiscal policy, its political graft.



Public sentiment is a fleeting thing -- pick any politician -- but if ever a populous movement can be said to gather in solidarity, human nature tends to seek fairness and a level playing field, and they will side with the under dog over the oppressor. That's why Walker's jackbooted political maneuvering are such an epic fail. As every poll as shown, the tidal wave of public approval is not about money, but on preserving the union's collective bargaining.
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PostSubject: Re: VOICELESS PEOPLE   Mon 07 Mar 2011, 5:51 am

jetfan27 wrote:
If eliminating collective bargaining is such a disastrous measure, it's worth asking why Virginia has seemed to do so well -- better, in fact, than Wisconsin.



You can't use Virginia as an example because it's a "right to fire" oops right to work state. There areen't many unions there.
On the contrary; of course it's a popularity contest. Walker would not have tried to pull off his anti-union shakedown if he didn't think the election results gave him sufficient political capital to make his move. Based on the assumption that he could maintain that wave of popular support, his focus wasn't on saving the state money, but union busting.



It wasn't about saving money when Walker made tax cuts his first legislative goal. Claiming the state is "broke", and then decreasing the state's revenue stream through tax cuts that only benefit a select few, while cutting the necessary services the public depends on, is not a serious fiscal policy, its political graft.



Public sentiment is a fleeting thing -- pick any politician -- but if ever a populous movement can be said to gather in solidarity, human nature tends to seek fairness and a level playing field, and they will side with the under dog over the oppressor. That's why Walker's jackbooted political maneuvering are such an epic fail. As every poll as shown, the tidal wave of public approval is not about money, but on preserving the union's collective bargaining.

Collective bargaining in state and local government is collective bargaining ..no matter if the state is a right to indoctrinate your child on the history of organized labor or not...Oh make that pro-union state!

What you haven’t been told is that when the Democrats were in power in Wisconsin, they passed a law requiring public schools to indoctrinate their students on the history of organized labor in America and the collective bargaining process. Of course, we can be sure that this is being taught evenhandedly and distinguishes between private-employee and public-employee unions – NOT!

Wisconsin Democrats were swamped in the November election, losing the Governorship, the State Senate, the State Assembly, and a US Senate seat. Even the Senate Majority Leader and the Speaker of the Assembly were defeated. Not only did the Republicans win big, but they campaigned on the sensible and cost-conscious reforms now being proposed by Governor Walker that would align the rights of Wisconsin public employees with those given to Federal employees.

How about the protesters, most of whom are public employees illegally taking time off from their jobs to demand continuation of their outrageous compensation packages. The residents of Wisconsin, who pay the salaries of these demonstrators, clearly understand that these ludicrous demands are breaking the government and being thrust on the backs of the hardworking middle-class – including private industry union members.

Anyone who still doesn’t believe that this system needs to be totally reformed hasn’t given any thought to the cost of public education, or the dismal performance of school districts in major cities. (That is, unless you believe the union leader who thinks the answer to his members’ inflated compensation is to raise tax rates even further.)


The main problem with PUBLIC-sector unions!


Hope and change voters....do not forget to after you enjoy a  with obama Kool-Aid....sweetened with NutraHope!

Many people (that I know) are alive only because it’s illegal to shoot them.

Ronald Reagen said it best.......The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.

"You can ignore reality, but not the consequences of ignoring reality." Ayn Rand

The truly educated never graduate !

When the Going Gets Tough, the Tough Get Going. The Smart Left a Long Time Ago.

I have always said I don't care what you do or with whom you do it, but don't demand that I think that it is normal or that it is OK!!!!

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity!
how rude

Defining....Abracadabra … cursing censored


Last edited by Abracadabra on Mon 07 Mar 2011, 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add cartoon)
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jetfan27
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PostSubject: Re: VOICELESS PEOPLE   Mon 07 Mar 2011, 2:27 pm

How about the protesters, most of whom are public employees illegally taking time off from their jobs to demand continuation of their outrageous compensation packages. The residents of Wisconsin, who pay the salaries of these demonstrators, clearly understand that these ludicrous demands are breaking the government and being thrust on the backs of the hardworking middle-class – including private industry union members.

Anyone who still doesn’t believe that this system needs to be totally reformed hasn’t given any thought to the cost of public education, or the dismal performance of school districts in major cities. (That is, unless you believe the union leader who thinks the answer to his members’ inflated compensation is to raise tax rates even further.)



Believe me Abra, those people are NOT illegally taking time off. The union won't permit it. I've been through this before, so I am speaking from personal experience. And salaries for educators in Tennessee and other non union states start about $10.00/ hour. That is ridiculous! Like a friend of mine always said" you buy crap, you get crap". Pay low salaries and you get inferior educators, which is what we have here in Tennessee. And when that principal and vice pricipal got shot last year, why did they have to take up a collection to help pay for hospital costs? What kind of crap is that? If they had a union and collective bargaining, that would not be necessary, because they would have decent health benefits, which to me are more important that salaries.


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PostSubject: Re: VOICELESS PEOPLE   Mon 07 Mar 2011, 6:42 pm

jetfan27 wrote:
How about the protesters, most of whom are public employees illegally taking time off from their jobs to demand continuation of their outrageous compensation packages. The residents of Wisconsin, who pay the salaries of these demonstrators, clearly understand that these ludicrous demands are breaking the government and being thrust on the backs of the hardworking middle-class – including private industry union members.

Anyone who still doesn’t believe that this system needs to be totally reformed hasn’t given any thought to the cost of public education, or the dismal performance of school districts in major cities. (That is, unless you believe the union leader who thinks the answer to his members’ inflated compensation is to raise tax rates even further.)



Believe me Abra, those people are NOT illegally taking time off. The union won't permit it. I've been through this before, so I am speaking from personal experience. And salaries for educators in Tennessee and other non union states start about $10.00/ hour. That is ridiculous! Like a friend of mine always said" you buy crap, you get crap". Pay low salaries and you get inferior educators, which is what we have here in Tennessee. And when that principal and vice pricipal got shot last year, why did they have to take up a collection to help pay for hospital costs? What kind of crap is that? If they had a union and collective bargaining, that would not be necessary, because they would have decent health benefits, which to me are more important that salaries.



If I haven't proven this to you already, we are dealing with some real intellect when it comes to these union protesters in Wisconsin. But this quote is quickly becoming THE sentence that sums this entire debate with the government unions. This quote comes from a union protester arguing with a tea party protestor in Wisconsin, and the union protestor actually says ......

"Why do you have a right to your money?"

Are you paying attention here? That's the mentality we are dealing with, folks.



http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/union-protester-asks-tea-partier-why-do-you-have-a-right-to-your-money/


Hope and change voters....do not forget to after you enjoy a  with obama Kool-Aid....sweetened with NutraHope!

Many people (that I know) are alive only because it’s illegal to shoot them.

Ronald Reagen said it best.......The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.

"You can ignore reality, but not the consequences of ignoring reality." Ayn Rand

The truly educated never graduate !

When the Going Gets Tough, the Tough Get Going. The Smart Left a Long Time Ago.

I have always said I don't care what you do or with whom you do it, but don't demand that I think that it is normal or that it is OK!!!!

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity!
how rude

Defining....Abracadabra … cursing censored
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hardcorelib49
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PostSubject: Re: VOICELESS PEOPLE   Fri 01 Apr 2011, 2:41 pm

jetfan27 wrote:
If eliminating collective bargaining is such a disastrous measure, it's worth asking why Virginia has seemed to do so well -- better, in fact, than Wisconsin.



You can't use Virginia as an example because it's a "right to fire" oops right to work state. There areen't many unions there.
On the contrary; of course it's a popularity contest. Walker would not have tried to pull off his anti-union shakedown if he didn't think the election results gave him sufficient political capital to make his move. Based on the assumption that he could maintain that wave of popular support, his focus wasn't on saving the state money, but union busting.



It wasn't about saving money when Walker made tax cuts his first legislative goal. Claiming the state is "broke", and then decreasing the state's revenue stream through tax cuts that only benefit a select few, while cutting the necessary services the public depends on, is not a serious fiscal policy, its political graft.



Public sentiment is a fleeting thing -- pick any politician -- but if ever a populous movement can be said to gather in solidarity, human nature tends to seek fairness and a level playing field, and they will side with the under dog over the oppressor. That's why Walker's jackbooted political maneuvering are such an epic fail. As every poll as shown, the tidal wave of public approval is not about money, but on preserving the union's collective bargaining.

It seems the only one here that any intelligence is jetfan.

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