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Subject: THE FAIR TAX...UNDERSTANDING TRUE TAX REFORM! Sun 05 Jun 2011, 6:01 am
Here is a video to help you understand The Fair Tax. The Fair Tax, once you understand it -- you will demand it!
FairTax calculator … Welcome to the FairTax calculator! We hope you'll take a moment to compare the difference between the FairTax and current income tax for you and your family. Before getting started, here is something helpful things to know: This is a tax estimation tool. In other words, it will closely approximate your taxes under the FairTax and the current income tax system, but it will estimate figures if you don't know your exact income tax numbers yourself.
Click the link below to view a chart comparing the current income tax, FairTax, and "flat income tax" bills: http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/FairTaxflattaxincometaxcomparisonchart4-26-11.pdf
Herman Cain Endorses Fair Tax At GOP Debate... http://fairtaxnation.ning.com/forum/topics/herman-cain-endorses-fair-tax
FilmCriticOne Freshman Author
Posts : 1 Join date : 2011-06-10
Subject: Re: THE FAIR TAX...UNDERSTANDING TRUE TAX REFORM! Fri 10 Jun 2011, 1:43 am
As a former Fairtax cult member, I can assure you, Fairtax sounds great but is profoundly, well, goofy. That's being charitable.
When I first liked Fairtax, I thought it was a regular retail sales tax. I thought that because that is the impression they give, and they claimed all this "research".
Well, the first thing that happened, was the main "researcher" that Fairtax bragged about, their "World expert" Dale Jorgenson, came out and said Fairtax was totally WRONG, That's right, their own expert, the guy THEY said proved all this, not only doesn't support it, he specifically said they were ALL WRONG. Totally wrong.
So that was odd.
Then I read the fine print. Normal sales tax? No way. First of all, it's a 300 billion dollar tax on PENSIONS and WAGES --- yes, 300 billion tax on PENSIONS and wages,. Who ever heard of a sales tax, a retail sales tax, on PENSIONS??? ON WAGES.
See, in the fine print, HR25 has a tax on all government WAGES and PENSIONS. It's really goofy, and they never mention this in their videos or speeches -- EVER. A tax your city has to pay on every dollar it spends for nearly everything -- and your city isn't the only one. Your county government has to pay 23% of what is spends, as a tax. And your state!
And yes, it's on wages, and pensions too. SO all the money your city spends on salaries, pensions -- and pretty much all spending -- they have to send a tax in to the federal government. Sorta of a giant surcharge.
See, Fairtax is not just a tax on your personal spending - like we have normal sales taxes on. That is just 1/5 of it. They also have a tax your city has to pay, on all it spends. They have a tax on your county, for all it spend. They have a tax on your state, for all it spends.
And even a tax on the federal government, for all it spends! Military spending is TAXED -- I am not kidding. Ask their leaders -- they ADMIT this. Plus, it's in in their fine print and footnotes.
And they do mention it, in one sentence, in each of their books. So it's there. See the Fairtax book, page 148-- really. "The federal government itself will be a MAJOR taxpayer"
Now we know why it says that. Then in the book, Fairtax the Truth, page 138, it says (from memory) "Under our plan, all city, county and states, will pay to the federal government a tax on all goods and services, including a tax on the purchase of LABOR (wages).
It's also in fine print and footnotes in HR25. They to really tax all government wages, pensions, and spending -- except spending on education. Everything else the government spends -- it has to pay a tax on.
That is really goofy, by the way. I mean REALLY goofy. Only people pay taxes. So all these hundreds of billions of dollars Fairtax has supposedly coming from "government" would really have to come from people.
And worse -- they hide this. They don't tell ANY city how much they will have to pay, but it's huge numbers. For example, Knoxville TN city government would have to pay 70 million dollars -!!! 35 million of that IN ADVANCE.
Yes - advance. Fairtax documents show, in a footnote -- footnote 19 -- that "We adopt a prepayment approach to taxing government WAGES"
It's a drastically different animal that we were told about at first. Who ever heard of a retail sales tax on PENSIONS and wages, and so forth -- paid IN ADVANCE.
Oh -- the calculator you say is so great -- that is a con job too. Really. That calculator does not let you put in any relevant information!! NONE! They don't ask one question about your taxable spending!!! They ask a bunch of BS, all of which has little, or NOTHING to do with what your fairtax would be!!!
They don't ask your rent, though rent is taxed. They don't ask how much you spent for your family's food, groceries, health care, vacation, phone, etc etc. They don't ask ANY question like that!! NONE. But that is what you pay taxes on!!
They only ask questions that make you THINK you re filling out something real -- you are NOT. They would have to ask you how much you SPENT -- they DONT. They ask you how much you spent o tuition, which is NOT taxed!! They ask how much you spent on used stuff -- which is NOT taxed.
But there is NO WAY to put in there, any thing real. NO place to put in your health care cost, which is taxed, no place to put in your insurance cost, which is taxed, no place to put in your food, utilities, phone, cable -- all taxed very high. So there is literally NO WAY they can possibly tell you anything -- I mean anything -- about your Fairax.
But they give you a report which shows you how much you SAVE!!! It's comical if it weren't so deceptive.
SO Fairtax is goofy== at best. And total BS, at minimum.
Abracadabra Founding Member
Posts : 1325 Join date : 2010-05-13 Age : 81
Subject: Re: THE FAIR TAX...UNDERSTANDING TRUE TAX REFORM! Sat 11 Jun 2011, 5:06 am
FilmCriticOne wrote:
As a former Fairtax cult member, I can assure you, Fairtax sounds great but is profoundly, well, goofy. That's being charitable.
When I first liked Fairtax, I thought it was a regular retail sales tax. I thought that because that is the impression they give, and they claimed all this "research".
Well, the first thing that happened, was the main "researcher" that Fairtax bragged about, their "World expert" Dale Jorgenson, came out and said Fairtax was totally WRONG, That's right, their own expert, the guy THEY said proved all this, not only doesn't support it, he specifically said they were ALL WRONG. Totally wrong.
So that was odd.
Then I read the fine print. Normal sales tax? No way. First of all, it's a 300 billion dollar tax on PENSIONS and WAGES --- yes, 300 billion tax on PENSIONS and wages,. Who ever heard of a sales tax, a retail sales tax, on PENSIONS??? ON WAGES.
See, in the fine print, HR25 has a tax on all government WAGES and PENSIONS. It's really goofy, and they never mention this in their videos or speeches -- EVER. A tax your city has to pay on every dollar it spends for nearly everything -- and your city isn't the only one. Your county government has to pay 23% of what is spends, as a tax. And your state!
And yes, it's on wages, and pensions too. SO all the money your city spends on salaries, pensions -- and pretty much all spending -- they have to send a tax in to the federal government. Sorta of a giant surcharge.
See, Fairtax is not just a tax on your personal spending - like we have normal sales taxes on. That is just 1/5 of it. They also have a tax your city has to pay, on all it spends. They have a tax on your county, for all it spend. They have a tax on your state, for all it spends.
And even a tax on the federal government, for all it spends! Military spending is TAXED -- I am not kidding. Ask their leaders -- they ADMIT this. Plus, it's in in their fine print and footnotes.
And they do mention it, in one sentence, in each of their books. So it's there. See the Fairtax book, page 148-- really. "The federal government itself will be a MAJOR taxpayer"
Now we know why it says that. Then in the book, Fairtax the Truth, page 138, it says (from memory) "Under our plan, all city, county and states, will pay to the federal government a tax on all goods and services, including a tax on the purchase of LABOR (wages).
It's also in fine print and footnotes in HR25. They to really tax all government wages, pensions, and spending -- except spending on education. Everything else the government spends -- it has to pay a tax on.
That is really goofy, by the way. I mean REALLY goofy. Only people pay taxes. So all these hundreds of billions of dollars Fairtax has supposedly coming from "government" would really have to come from people.
And worse -- they hide this. They don't tell ANY city how much they will have to pay, but it's huge numbers. For example, Knoxville TN city government would have to pay 70 million dollars -!!! 35 million of that IN ADVANCE.
Yes - advance. Fairtax documents show, in a footnote -- footnote 19 -- that "We adopt a prepayment approach to taxing government WAGES"
It's a drastically different animal that we were told about at first. Who ever heard of a retail sales tax on PENSIONS and wages, and so forth -- paid IN ADVANCE.
Oh -- the calculator you say is so great -- that is a con job too. Really. That calculator does not let you put in any relevant information!! NONE! They don't ask one question about your taxable spending!!! They ask a bunch of BS, all of which has little, or NOTHING to do with what your fairtax would be!!!
They don't ask your rent, though rent is taxed. They don't ask how much you spent for your family's food, groceries, health care, vacation, phone, etc etc. They don't ask ANY question like that!! NONE. But that is what you pay taxes on!!
They only ask questions that make you THINK you re filling out something real -- you are NOT. They would have to ask you how much you SPENT -- they DONT. They ask you how much you spent o tuition, which is NOT taxed!! They ask how much you spent on used stuff -- which is NOT taxed.
But there is NO WAY to put in there, any thing real. NO place to put in your health care cost, which is taxed, no place to put in your insurance cost, which is taxed, no place to put in your food, utilities, phone, cable -- all taxed very high. So there is literally NO WAY they can possibly tell you anything -- I mean anything -- about your Fairax.
But they give you a report which shows you how much you SAVE!!! It's comical if it weren't so deceptive.
SO Fairtax is goofy== at best. And total BS, at minimum.
You are correct that state and local governments would not be exempt from paying the FairTax and that they would even be required to pay the FairTax on employee wages.
I see no problem with taxing service providers including the the governments because....see * and ** and *** in the paragraph below...
*Service providers are not exempt from the income tax today, and should not be exempt from the FairTax. Services now **account for well over one-half of the gross domestic product (GDP). Neither consumption of services nor consumption of goods should be tax preferred. And it is economically foolish not to tax the fastest growing segment of our economy. ***Competition, not politics, should determine what goods and services cost.
The removal of the embedded taxes as a result of the FairTax implementation will make products and services more affordable to state and local governments. State and local governments can also look for other ways to cut costs. Worst case scenario, they would have to raise taxes to cover the FairTax if their pre-FairTax spending levels remain the same.
For me (this is just a guessamate but probably a good SWAG), even with a couple of thousand dollars increase a year in property taxes and sales taxes . Nevertheless, I would save $3,500 a year with the FairTax in place.
Many other low and middle income households would also see similar savings with the FairTax even if state and local governments have to raise taxes to pay the FairTax.
You are right.....the Fair Tax calculator does not let you put in any relevant information about the family's food, groceries, health care, vacation, phone, rent ...et cetera. It enters the information for you automatically.......it comes under prebate family allowance ...see * below..
All valid Social Security cardholders who are U.S. residents receive a monthly prebate equivalent to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services, also known as the poverty level expenditures. The prebate is paid in advance, in equal installments each month. The size of the prebate is determined by the Department of Health & Human Services’ poverty level guideline multiplied by the tax rate. *This is a well-accepted, long-used poverty-level calculation that includes food, clothing, shelter, transportation, medical care, etc.
I see “Dale Jorgenson, came out and said Fairtax was totally WRONG, That's right, their own expert, the guy THEY said proved all this, not only doesn't support it, he specifically said they were ALL WRONG. Totally wrong” all over the internet and not one single reference to where it is found that he said this. If you know of a site that has this information... please post it so I can read it. Also Dale Jorgenson is only only one opinion. I tend to believe the opinions of eighty economists, including Nobel Laureate Vernon L. Smith, who have endorsed the plan as opposed to only Dale Jorgenson.
I like the idea of being penalized for spending money instead of earning money.
A cartoon from the year....1933
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Subject: Re: THE FAIR TAX...UNDERSTANDING TRUE TAX REFORM!